Geronimo : What if Osama Bin Laden was killed prior to 9/11?

[KingSweden24]

That's more or less what I implied, but any recession would put a halt to it - together with the realization that the powers that be are doing nothing to seriously put a dent in climate change, despite it being very much a discussed subject in the 1990s.

Ah, I see

@Iwanh has I believe suggested that the alt-GFC will be much more of a “normal” recession (something more akin to the early 1990s real estate crash) than the apocalypse of OTL, but I could be wrong. A lot of that cake was baked in 2003-04ish

 

[baliebox4916]

Ah, I see

@Iwanh has I believe suggested that the alt-GFC will be much more of a “normal” recession (something more akin to the early 1990s real estate crash) than the apocalypse of OTL, but I could be wrong. A lot of that cake was baked in 2003-04ish

i just hope the 2008 recession is at least smaller in TTL like they are planning
that and c**vid not happening would make this the perfect AU imo

the 2008 recession killed alot of canadian companies (including canwest which was the last non corus/bell company that existed in canada thats not the cbc)
and was also the reason why anime was dead for a while here in canada, with anime north instead becoming the homestuck equivalent to bronycon during the canadian anime drought of the early 2010s

this was also the reason why cool high quality japanese style cars like the saturn was phased out in favor of the cheap ugly european tesla style cars we have now like the fiat or the nissan cube (and may also be why led street lights are an ugly white instead of the cities wating for orange led street lights to become a thing)

hopefully with the 2008 recession being smaller, we could see good eurodance music survive instead of it being replaced by crap like dubstep and justin bieber (though TTLs dubstep equivalent may be much easier to listen and dance to like eurodance)

afterall, nurave is a much more colorful/cute version of the darker emo/scene culture in OTL

 

[Pax_Nihil]

i just hope the 2008 recession is at least smaller in TTL like they are planning
that and c**vid not happening would make this the perfect AU imo

the 2008 recession killed alot of canadian companies (including canwest which was the last non corus/bell company that existed in canada thats not the cbc)
and was also the reason why anime was dead for a while here in canada, with anime north instead becoming the homestuck equivalent to bronycon during the anime drought of the early 2010s

this was also the reason why cool high quality japanese style cars like the saturn was phased out in favor of the cheap european tesla style cars we have now (and may also be why led street lights are an ugly white instead of the cities wating for orange led street lights to become a thing)

hopefully with the 2008 recession being smaller, we could see good eurodance music survive instead of it being replaced by crap like dubstep and justin bieber (though TTLs dubstep equivalent may be much easier to listen and dance to like eurodance)

What's wrong with white LEDs? Like yeah they're bad because they mess with animals and shit but wanting them to be orange for aesthetic reasons is kinda making it potentially harder for drivers and drivers are already crazy as it is, the better they can see things the better all our lives are lol

 

[baliebox4916]

What's wrong with white LEDs? Like yeah they're bad because they mess with animals and shit but wanting them to be orange for aesthetic reasons is kinda making it potentially harder for drivers and drivers are already crazy as it is, the better they can see things the better all our lives are lol

it just looks aesthetically cooler imo

the white leds make urban cities feel more like empty countrysides
where orange style leds have a cool urban nocturnal feel to it

its like comparing the aesthetic of a show/game like sly cooper, unreal tournament or hey arnold to the aesthetic of poppy playtime, fornite or roblox

maybe its because i was born in the 90s when sodium lights were commonplace and was never alive in the 70s and 80s when mercury street lights and halogen wallpacks were still a thing
so thats what i grew up with as a kid/teen

but yet again i am a part of a facebook group called ban blinding leds thats strictly about bringing back the cool nocturnal aesthetic that was gimped by modern led street lights

 

[Pax_Nihil]

it just looks aesthetically cooler imo

the white leds make urban cities feel more like empty countrysides
where orange style leds have a cool urban nocturnal feel to it

its like comparing the aesthetic of a show/game like sly cooper, unreal tournament or hey arnold to the aesthetic of poppy playtime, fornite or roblox

maybe its because i was born in the 90s when sodium lights were commonplace and was never alive in the 70s and 80s when mercury street lights and halogen wallpacks were still a thing
so thats what i grew up with as a kid/teen

but yet again i am a part of a facebook group called ban blinding leds thats strictly about bringing back the cool nocturnal aesthetic that was gimped by modern led street lights

I agree we need variable intensity street lights because of the numerous benefits overall but only for aesthetics is just silly. But that's just my opinion.

 

[King of Danes]

any updates?

its been two days

A good update takes time. Don't rush the author yo. Also, an update a week is more than reasonable - Heck some tls I follow update less than once a month

 

[CalBear]

any updates?

its been two days

Really?

Time to switch to decaf.

 

[athgtq16129]

VHS was around until 2006, not 2003. 2003 was the year that DVDs began to outsell VHS, though. I remember my parents and grandparents still buying video tapes until shortly before they were removed from store shelves.

At least here in Brazil I was using VHS tapes to record TV programs and watch movies as late as 2008-2009, if an American would ask me "you remember recording a TV broadcast on Jumanji and watching it on VHS? those were the days of the 90s!", I would reply yeah I remember, for me those were the days of 2008 lol.

Edit: forgot to write that video rental stores in here still had VHS tapes as late as until 2007-2008 if my memory is right.

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

At least here in Brazil I was using VHS tapes to record TV programs and watch movies as late as 2008-2009, if an American would ask me "you remember recording a TV broadcast on Jumanji and watching it on VHS? those were the days of the 90s!", I would reply yeah I remember, for me those were the days of 2008 lol.

People in the US were still using VHS tapes to record movies and shows off of TV well into the 2000s even with DVRs being a thing. I have seen quite a few tape recordings (commercials, bumpers, ect.) from the 2000s (usually from the early and mid parts of the decade) on YouTube.

In the US, DVDs began to outsell VHS around mid 2003, but it took another three years before most stores began pulling them from the shelves. Best Buy and Circuit City stopped selling VHS between 2002 and 2003.

It took longer in some countries to stop selling VHS. I remember reading on Twitter a while back that South Korea had tapes with newer movies on the shelves well into the early 2010s. It would be pretty interesting to see Avatar, 300 and The Dark Knight on video to say the least.

 

[usernamebutepic]

I remember my family still using tapes, at the latest, in about 2014? We used to have one of those massive old tvs, we got that around 2005 as a gift. Still watched vhs for home movies, old tapes from the 90s/2000s well into the 10s.

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

I remember my family still using tapes, at the latest, in about 2014? We used to have one of those massive old tvs, we got that around 2005 as a gift. Still watched vhs for home movies, old tapes from the 90s/2000s well into the 10s.

When you mean a massive TV, do you mean like an old big screen or rear-projection TV?

 

[usernamebutepic]

When you mean a massive TV, do you mean like an old big screen or rear-projection TV?

Rear projection. I think

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

Rear projection. I think

My parents and maternal grandparents both had big screens.

My grandparents bought a 36 inch Panasonic back in 1993 and had it in the living room for about 20 years. In the Summer of 2013, the TV sadly died and started making a awful burning smell. They had to bring up the then "normal sized" Emerson TV (bought back in 2004) from the basement (playroom for me and my siblings) to use. My grandfather bought a flat screen TV from Walmart but only had it for a week or so because he was clueless with modern technology (he could barley operate the old TV, let alone a newer more advanced one) and getting more forgetful in his old age wasn't helping. He returned it to Walmart, got his money back and they continued to have the Emerson in the living. However, in the late Summer of 2019 right before the world ended, my grandfather (my grandmother had moved into my family's apartment after a surgery) got a used older flat screen (the Emerson was simply unplugged and put onto the floor next to his chair) and used it until he moved into an assisted living facility.

Back in 2000, my parents bought a giant ass Toshiba and it was used up until 2017 when my dad decided to unplug it, move it off its stand and store it in the front room after he bought a smaller flat screen. Why he did this when the Toshiba still was working fine? I don't know. Two years, later, he got rid of it along with another old TV.

 

[HJR]

The last time my family used out VHS was ~2017, maybe 2018 (I never really paid attention, tbh). Then again, we weren't exactly well-off, so we probably kept it past its 'sell-by' date because the tapes were cheap and easy to get.

 

[baliebox4916]

heres my story on how the faux 90s was like in canada living as a kid in the 2000s
my parents had their old rca console tv they got in the mid 80s and that was the tv i grew up watching ytv, teletoon, the news and kids cbc every morning alongside anime, and my dad even hooked up my ps2 during christmas 2004 (before that i either played games on my ps1 that i rented from jumbo video or got from the bargain bin at zellers and eb games, went to the skylon tower arcade in niagara falls to play daytona usa or played educational games that i would get at the library and cereal box games that my neighbour lent down to me on my windows 95 pc

my mom also still recorded survivor and big brother on vhses, my family still used disposable film cameras with the occasion of the breadwinners in my family using digital cameras and i still used windows 98/2000/ME for the internet (i didn't get windows xp until 2007)

however after my father passed away, my mom got in debt after becoming a chronic alcoholic for a while after his passing
and in 2010 we had to throw out our rca terminal tv

luckily after that i got a ps3 and my mom got a samsung lcd tv (which she broke within a year alongside another antique item that being an antique lamp)
by 2014 i got a decent gaming rig that could sorta handle games from before 2014 and in 2017 i got my first phone since my first first phone that i got from a rogers plan in 2011

 

[MLK JFK LBJ Beatles]

https://www.fastcompany.com/90674387/7-ways-9-11-influenced-pop-culture-that-you-may-have-forgotten-or-never-known-about

@Iwanh maybe you can take a reference, although many things have mentioned in the article you already know, such as Nosebleed or No Jimmy Kimmel Show

But, according to this article, it says that 9/11 shaped the OTL MCU

 

[Iwanh]

Teaser

Devils bargain

… Somewhere in western Iraq

This was a business meeting, pure and simple. There would be no breaking of the ice, not even a nod or handshake. Both knew that any recognition of the other as an equal would bring themselves down to others' level.

The sweltering autumnal sun hung like a haze, baking the surface of trucks and windows, wringing a steady stream of sweat from the heavily armed men who stood stroking their rifles in uneasy frustration, or kicking sand with their heels or otherwise bickering with each other.

The compound was far away from anything of notice, designed to be undetectable by American satellites or spy planes, even if they found it, it was just a small building with a small farm, scattered with pieces of corrugated iron and stone bricks, there were no military installations to be seen and the ‘armoury’ was just a section of the house where old Kalashnikovs were laying in mismatched formation against the walls and tables.

A convoy rolled through the desert, just a couple of cars but they still stood out, shinier and cleaner than anything else in the area, possibly the most expensive nonmilitary vehicles in Iraq, they threw up dust and sand as they got closer.

Crawling up to the shack, the guards got out, they were older, taller and better groomed than the militants, in neat black boiler suit uniforms topped with berets, the stark opposite to the mismatched linens, ill-fitting footwear and dirty beards of their opposites.

They opened the door of the rear car and exited, one of the most powerful and feared men in all of Iraq stepped out, the son of the dictator, Uday Hussein adorned in a military uniform of his own, customized with silver linings equipped with gold-rimmed sunglasses and a pistol packed on each of his hips, as if he were a cowboy.

Though he limped from his many bullet wounds, he swaggered like he owned the world, perhaps he had reason to, everyone was aware of his antics, the tortures, the killings, and only days ago he was reported to have set fire to an Iraqi minister’s house and imprisoned his sons in his private dungeon for failing to carry out his father’s orders correctly enough.

Recently the stories had become so monstrously outlandish, including that some of his victims had been chopped up, canned and sold as dog food probably a lie, but there was no way of knowing. He held no official position of authority but still his dark hand stretched across the country end to end, assuming control over the energy, agriculture and propaganda departments, with his network of military forces, spies and prostitutes which reaped him a large bounty of wealth, power and loyalty.

Withdrawing a walking cane from the car, Uday entered the compound where he would meet with another of the region's most feared and dangerous men ‘the Green Man’ the Jordanian terrorist chief Abu Zarqawi. Officially they were enemies, one a foreign criminal accused of assassinating Arab leaders and the other a servant of secular tyranny perverting the word of God with additional 'Holy texts', but in Iraq, things were always more complex than they seemed, and loyalties were always for sale.

The base was as squalid as it looked on the outside, cluttered with garbage and dirtied flooring. Zarqawi was not a prince, he was a petty thief, a thug from the slums of Amman with no education, covered nearly head to toe in scars, reportedly from when his many tattoos were carved out from his skin in adherence with his faith and now his new injuries from his narrow escape from an American missile attack. For most of his history in Iraq, he was a nuisance but a manageable one, easier to allow to operate inside the country so long as he targeted enemies outside of it, confident that if he ever became more than a nuisance he could be crushed in an instant.

Uday flicked off his sunglasses and folded them into his breast pocket and Zarqawi slowly stood to accept his presence, but both stayed away from the other introduced by Zarqawi’s courier. There were no introductions to exchange, both men had been exchanging messages via intermediaries for weeks, but both had pushed for an in-person meeting, they liked the personal touch.

False smiles stuck to their faces, but the discomfort was palpable. “Karbala,” said Uday, getting straight to the crux of the meeting “is in the hands of infidels, and you have threatened to take it from them”.

The city had fallen to rebel Shia forces and needed to be retaken, the international media was confused as to why it had held out so long, had Saddam lost his grip on power, it was a question growing in the minds of foreigners and Iraqi alike, the most likely theory was that a heavy-handed response on the holy city could spark a wider civil war, or an international response that could bring down Baathist rule, turning the matter into a stalemate.

Zarqawi interjected, and quickly a tirade poured out of his mucky brown teeth against the Shia, calling them ‘credents'’ who were trying to thwart the goals of Jihad, and that a grand conflagration between the true faith and the apostates was nearing.

“Total war! Is necessary, destruction of them all, it is an insult that it remains, an insult that cannot be allowed to go on”.

Uday nodded along agreeing that the loss had been a failure, that the Iraqi generals were weak, and couldn’t be trusted to carry out the attack order. He unveiled a large cigar, an obvious insult to Zarqawi’s theocratic values.

“I agree, we need men with inspiration and dedication to take the city without heavy weapons or tanks, the same way they took it, I think you can provide this”.

Even though he was not the commander of the Fedayeen he claimed to hold command over a regiment strong enough to infiltrate and destroy the rebels, but that he hoped Zarqawi’s cooperation.

“The world cannot see Iraqi regular soldiers engaged in the acts necessary to cut loose their grip, the Americans will strike at us”.

Zarqawi snorted at that prospect, “Let them come, let the crusaders choke on their own blood, and fall by the sword.”

Uday moved closer, prodding his cane against Zarqawi’s battered rifle in comparison to his gleaming revolver “The Americans are cowards, who will never fight us themselves, but the Shia are their puppet and must drown for their betrayal, help me, and I will furnish your armoury for the greater war against the Americans”.

The agreement was made, for the terrorists to link with Uday’s squadrons, to take back Karbala without being identified as Iraqis. To wield the black flags instead of the Iraqi tricolour. The two dealers of death agreed, though both were certain of the other's untrustworthy nature, but before the meeting ended Zarqawi still had one last question.

“Is this order from Saddam, or you?”

To which Uday replied with a grin.“Iraq is not a country for old men.”

(Left) Leader of terror group Jama'at Abu al-Zarqawi (Right) eldest son of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
​

---

Here's a short one for you guys, I've been a bit busy but we should have some major updates finishing up 2006

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

Teaser

Devils bargain

… Somewhere in western Iraq

This was a business meeting, pure and simple. There would be no breaking of the ice, not even a nod or handshake. Both knew that any recognition of the other as an equal would bring themselves down to others' level.

The sweltering autumnal sun hung like a haze, baking the surface of trucks and windows, wringing a steady stream of sweat from the heavily armed men who stood stroking their rifles in uneasy frustration, or kicking sand with their heels or otherwise bickering with each other.

The compound was far away from anything of notice, designed to be undetectable by American satellites or spy planes, even if they found it, it was just a small building with a small farm, scattered with pieces of corrugated iron and stone bricks, there were no military installations to be seen and the ‘armoury’ was just a section of the house where old Kalashnikovs were laying in mismatched formation against the walls and tables.

A convoy rolled through the desert, just a couple of cars but they still stood out, shinier and cleaner than anything else in the area, possibly the most expensive nonmilitary vehicles in Iraq, they threw up dust and sand as they got closer.

Crawling up to the shack, the guards got out, they were older, taller and better groomed than the militants, in neat black boiler suit uniforms topped with berets, the stark opposite to the mismatched linens, ill-fitting footwear and dirty beards of their opposites.

They opened the door of the rear car and exited, one of the most powerful and feared men in all of Iraq stepped out, the son of the dictator, Uday Hussein adorned in a military uniform of his own, customized with silver linings equipped with gold-rimmed sunglasses and a pistol packed on each of his hips, as if he were a cowboy.

Though he limped from his many bullet wounds, he swaggered like he owned the world, perhaps he had reason to, everyone was aware of his antics, the tortures, the killings, and only days ago he was reported to have set fire to an Iraqi minister’s house and imprisoned his sons in his private dungeon for failing to carry out his father’s orders correctly enough.

Recently the stories had become so monstrously outlandish, including that some of his victims had been chopped up, canned and sold as dog food probably a lie, but there was no way of knowing. He held no official position of authority but still his dark hand stretched across the country end to end, assuming control over the energy, agriculture and propaganda departments, with his network of military forces, spies and prostitutes which reaped him a large bounty of wealth, power and loyalty.

Withdrawing a walking cane from the car, Uday entered the compound where he would meet with another of the region's most feared and dangerous men ‘the Green Man’ the Jordanian terrorist chief Abu Zarqawi. Officially they were enemies, one a foreign criminal accused of assassinating Arab leaders and the other a servant of secular tyranny perverting the word of God with additional 'Holy texts', but in Iraq, things were always more complex than they seemed, and loyalties were always for sale.

The base was as squalid as it looked on the outside, cluttered with garbage and dirtied flooring. Zarqawi was not a prince, he was a petty thief, a thug from the slums of Amman with no education, covered nearly head to toe in scars, reportedly from when his many tattoos were carved out from his skin in adherence with his faith and now his new injuries from his narrow escape from an American missile attack. For most of his history in Iraq, he was a nuisance but a manageable one, easier to allow to operate inside the country so long as he targeted enemies outside of it, confident that if he ever became more than a nuisance he could be crushed in an instant.

Uday flicked off his sunglasses and folded them into his breast pocket and Zarqawi slowly stood to accept his presence, but both stayed away from the other introduced by Zarqawi’s courier. There were no introductions to exchange, both men had been exchanging messages via intermediaries for weeks, but both had pushed for an in-person meeting, they liked the personal touch.

False smiles stuck to their faces, but the discomfort was palpable. “Najaf,” said Uday, getting straight to the crux of the meeting “is in the hands of infidels, and you have threatened to take it from them”.

The city had fallen to rebel Shia forces and needed to be retaken, the international media was confused as to why it had held out so long, had Saddam lost his grip on power, it was a question growing in the minds of foreigners and Iraqi alike, the most likely theory was that a heavy-handed response on the holy city could spark a wider civil war, or an international response that could bring down Baathist rule, turning the matter into a stalemate.

Zarqawi interjected, and quickly a tirade poured out of his mucky brown teeth against the Shia, calling them ‘credents'’ who were trying to thwart the goals of Jihad, and that a grand conflagration between the true faith and the apostates was nearing.

“Total war! Is necessary, destruction of them all, it is an insult that it remains, an insult that cannot be allowed to go on”.

Uday nodded along agreeing that the loss had been a failure, that the Iraqi generals were weak, and couldn’t be trusted to carry out the attack order. He unveiled a large cigar, an obvious insult to Zarqawi’s theocratic values.

“I agree, we need men with inspiration and dedication to take the city without heavy weapons or tanks, the same way they took it, I think you can provide this”.

Even though he was not the commander of the Fedayeen he claimed to hold command over a regiment strong enough to infiltrate and destroy the rebels, but that he hoped Zarqawi’s cooperation.

“The world cannot see Iraqi regular soldiers engaged in the acts necessary to cut loose their grip, the Americans will strike at us”.

Zarqawi snorted at that prospect, “Let them come, let the crusaders choke on their own blood, and fall by the sword.”

Uday moved closer, prodding his cane against Zarqawi’s battered rifle in comparison to his gleaming stetson“The Americans are cowards, who will never fight us themselves, but the Shia are their puppet and must drown for their betrayal, help me, and I will furnish your armoury for the greater war against the Americans”.

The agreement was made, for the terrorists to link with Uday’s squadrons, to take back Najaf without being identified as Iraqis. To wield the black flags instead of the Iraqi tricolour. The two dealers of death agreed, though both were certain of the other's untrustworthy nature, but before the meeting ended Zarqawi still had one last question.

“Is this order from Saddam, or you?”

To which Uday replied with a grin.“Iraq is not a country for old men.”

View attachment 861801
(Left) Leader of terror group Jama'at Abu al-Zarqawi (Right) eldest son of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
​

---

Here's a short one for you guys, I've been a bit busy but we should have some major updates finishing up 2006

I have a feeling were this is going.

I assume that there's either going to be a major terrorist attack against the US or one of its allies in the Middle East in the near future or Uday Hussein is going to use the terrorists to help him perform a coup d'état against his dad or something so he can take over Iraq.

Either way, the future looks pretty interesting.

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

Here's a short one for you guys, I've been a bit busy but we should have some major updates finishing up 2006

I wish you good luck with the updates, Iwanh!

 

[HesitatedEye]

Oh Uday this is gonna go very badly for you. If you think what Saddam did to you in 1990 was bad then 2006 is gonna be what you put that national team through seem like a picnic.