Californie- French California

Post #1- Conclusion
Post #1: Conclusion

“France has no friends, only interests.” -Charles de Gaulle

The war had been a rather absurd one, but most wars are although few admitted it in the name like this one did. The Pastry War of 1839-40, so named because defending a bakery was the ostensible reason for the conflict, was a rather minor affair that probably would have been forgotten in a matter of months save what happened at the peace table. The fighting itself had been fairly brief, little more than a French blockade of Veracruz, Mexico in response to claims of the destruction of French citizen’s property in the city and general lawlessness. The French had demanded reimbursement for the supposed damage which had not been forthcoming. So, in accordance with logic of the time, the French extended the blockade to the entire Mexican Atlantic shore and proceeded to bombard the Mexican forts outside Veracruz to dust.

The only land fighting had been in Veracruz itself, where a party of French marines stormed ashore and captured the main citadel of the city after a shattering display of French naval gunnery. The battle was short and swift with total French victory, and essentially giving them command of the city. Still the Mexcans did not surrender. They assembled a small army under General Santa Anna, who seized the chance to recover his political fortunes. Sadly, the campaign did not go well for the general who found the French to be both bold and skilled. After skirmishing and street fighting in Veracruz itself the French actually captured Santa Anna and then retreated to their ships, having dealt the Mexican Army a sharp defeat.
220px-Combat_de_Vera_Cruz_1838_Prince_de_Joinville_attaque_la_maison_du_general_Arista.jpg

A later painting of the fighting surrounding the capture of Santa Anna.

Shaken, the Mexicans finally admitted they could not match the technologically superior French forces and began negotiations in early 1840. The ‘war’ had been confined to Veracruz and the surrounding forts and had claimed just over 200 lives. A rather minor affair all told, little more than an extension of the rough diplomacy of the early 19th century empires. Ironically it was the battle at the peace table that aggravated the French more than the actual fighting, which they had conducted with ease. The main issue was, the Mexicans had very little to offer the victorious French. The corrupt and weak central government had no money to pay any reparations, let alone the huge sums France was demanding. For a while the idea that Mexico could ‘pay’ with favorable commercial treaties was floated but the idea lost steam when Santa Anna, playing both ends against the middle and enjoying his role as imprisoned councilor, told the French negotiators in confidence that Mexico City would never uphold such a bargain.

Finally, confronted with this lack of money, land was finally settled on as a way to satisfy both French pride and economic desire. Mexico was, despite endless internal troubles, still a vast country and owned extensive tracts of nearly empty lands in western North America. Named Alta California, it was a vast territory that stretched from the Pacific Ocean to a rather vaguely defined border east of the Rockies with New Mexico. The only area not conceded to the French was Baja California, the long desert peninsula guarding the Sea of Cortez. This area was too strategic and considered too critical to Mexico's core territory to be included so we removed from Alta California. It was still a truely massive area, if only thinly populated and little explored, at least by Europeans. Few in Veracruz thought the land would be worth much, although the value of some of the fine Pacific harbors was considered to be noteworthy.
Deppe-web-002.jpg

Artwork such as this is all the French knew about the distant land of California.

The scheme was strongly supported by Prince de Joinville, Louis Phillpe’s third son, who had actually taken part in the fighting and now was part of the French negotiating team. The Mexican government was loath to give up land but when faced with a choice between losing wild backcountry in the north or further French destruction of major ports, there was little real debate.

The plan also alarmed the British minister present at the meeting, acting as a mediator. France gaining land was not something the British looked on favorably but there was little they could do about it. Relations with Louis-Phillpe were actually quite good at the moment and risking that delicate relationship over empty lands far to the north seemed unwise. Even more relevant, the British and French were currently working together in yet another minor conflict in Uruguay, which bound the two empires together for the moment. As for the Americans and their supposed Monroe Doctrine, they were not even consulted.

No one in Veracruz, neither Mexican, British or French would have imagined the repercussions of their treaty.

The news of the treaty was at first met with bemusement in Paris. Louis Philippe and his foreign ministers had expected war reparations, some aggressive commercial treaties and perhaps temporary control over a few coastal fortifications. Now they were suddenly the new masters of a gigantic, uncharted wilderness spreading over hundreds of thousands of square kilometers. It seemed a ludicrous result for such a minor conflict, gaining lands many times the size of France itself. It made the ongoing wars over Algeria seem rather quaint and more than a few officials remarked that Mexico could perhaps teach North Africa Berbers the merits of generosity.

After the initial amusement wore off however, Adolphe Thiers, the French Foreign Minister, had some tough choices to make. Despite the jokes, the seeming ‘generosity of Mexico’ seemed more like a honeyed trap than anything else. The land was huge, unmanageable, full of presumably hostile locals and about as far from French power as it was possible to get. It took well over six months to sail from France to California, with no naval bases closer than French Guiana or Reunion which weren’t even in the Pacific. The new land would be expensive to maintain or even contact, let alone defend and Thiers personally doubted it would be worth it. Not only that, Thiers was currently part of a European wide controversy over French support for Egyptian ruler Muahhammd Ali pushing France nearly to war with Great Britain. Against this, California seemed a distant matter, low on their list of priorities. Still, it did seem that the French should at least send someone to this new land they ostensibly controlled even if to merely survey it for sale.

Adolphe_Thiers_by_Luigi_Calamatta.jpg

Adolphe Theirs in 1840, the man behind the Californie Commission

So it was decided to send a French commissioner to the area, to survey and report their findings both on the actual extent of the land, as well as any possible mineral deposits that might prove valuable. After casting about for a suitable person, the crown decided on Louis Tardy de Montravel, an experienced naval admiral with interest in exploration and administration. Better still, he had experience in both the Pacific and South America, along with a crude understanding of Spanish. Few thought his mission would come to much aside from perhaps creating more accurate maps, a brief survey of the interior and perhaps a sensible bidding price for France to sell its newest territory. Montravel was given little authority to go with his new post but in a gesture of royal interest it was decided that Prince de Joinville should join the expedition.

No one knew what they would find.
 
Last edited:
As for the Americans and their supposed Monroe Doctrine, they were not even consulted.

Also: burrrrrrrrrrn :) LOL. As an American, that hurt to read a little bit, but is actually completely in line with the geo-political realities of the time and realistic. One question: When does the news of the treaty reach the United States? 1840 was an election year after all, and between the treaty and the Panic of 1837, I wonder if this helps swing even more votes to Harrison.
 
Also: burrrrrrrrrrn :) LOL. As an American, that hurt to read a little bit, but is actually completely in line with the geo-political realities of the time and realistic. One question: When does the news of the treaty reach the United States? 1840 was an election year after all, and between the treaty and the Panic of 1837, I wonder if this helps swing even more votes to Harrison.
I am going to try hard to focus the TL on California at first.
 
I am going to try hard to focus the TL on California at first.

COMPLETELY understandable, trust me! Nothing worse than a TL drifting to be USA-centric when the author doesn't want it to be. And personally, I'm far more interested in the developments in California in any case :)
 
Given that the Mexican American War was just around the corner, the US is likely to have this be a major issue. France trampling the Minroe doctrine so blatantly makes for a good attack ad.

I wonder if the 48-54 or fight crowd might press harder, since there's not as much benefit to going to war with Mexico now and less reason to fear them. A US-British flare-up right around the time of the '48 revolutions would be... interesting.
 
Curious what the final boundaries would be. Maybe they get Baja as well? Or maybe their stretch of Alta doesn't go as south or or as north as in OTL? Does Nevada get snatched up? Etc.
 
Curious what the final boundaries would be. Maybe they get Baja as well? Or maybe their stretch of Alta doesn't go as south or or as north as in OTL? Does Nevada get snatched up? Etc.
Baja is not included,. Alta California in 1840 DID include Baja (it moved around a bit) but the Mexicans aren't going to include it in this. I'll go and edit that in.

Nevada and stuff is included, using the rough, vague OTL boundary with New Mexico.

Edit- Added.
 
On a very much minor note, I wonder if they're going to buy out Fort Ross, or if they will keep the Russians there as a very limited buffer with the British. Probably too few and too southerly for the latter, I suppose.
 
Given that the Mexican American War was just around the corner, the US is likely to have this be a major issue. France trampling the Minroe doctrine so blatantly makes for a good attack ad.

I wonder if the 48-54 or fight crowd might press harder, since there's not as much benefit to going to war with Mexico now and less reason to fear them. A US-British flare-up right around the time of the '48 revolutions would be... interesting.

It would depend on a number of issues. There's no reason that Webster isn't Secretary of State in the ATL, following the election of 1840 - and being an Anglophile, he certainly isn't going to push too hard. So it comes down to whoever wins in '48. If we get Clay (and Harrison not keeling over a few weeks into his Presidency might make for a more successful Whig party and their election more likely) than we probably don't see annexation of Texas. Without Texas getting annexed, the South will fight tooth-and-nail to not fight too strongly for Oregon - which would invariably be a Free Territory and threaten to throw the balance of Slave v. Free out of wack. Likewise, even if we get Polk (and he was a darkhorse candidate, so no reason the Dems would nomiante him or that he'd even win) and he moves for annexing Texas, there might not be a Mexican-American War as there isn't nearly as much territory to take from the Mexican Republic. If we short circuit the Mexican-American war (and i'm in favor of this because it makes things more interesting) the politicing with the Slave States is going to get interesting as they really have no good land to expand into, and all the remaining US territory is likely to go free. This could potentially lead to an earlier Civil War (though no more than 8 years earlier I'd imagine, an likely not sooner than 56) or ... something else.

Either way, its an interesting situation!
 
Mexican policy towards Texas will be really interesting. Santa Anna wouldn't want to lose more territory, but will he be willing to make concessions to the Anglo settlers to keep them as good citizens? If they do secede, do they 1) get swallowed up by the U.S. anyway, 2) get backing from the French and/or British as a buffer state, or 3) do so in the context of a larger Mexican rebellion that might comprise other northern states such as the Republic of the Rio Grande insurgents?
 
I have a hard time seeing France holding onto California permanently, there will be too many Americans flooding into the region once gold is discovered, and California is about as long of a voyage from France as you can get. Still, I'm intrigued to see how La Californie Française turns out.
 
Mexican policy towards Texas will be really interesting. Santa Anna wouldn't want to lose more territory, but will he be willing to make concessions to the Anglo settlers to keep them as good citizens? If they do secede, do they 1) get swallowed up by the U.S. anyway, 2) get backing from the French and/or British as a buffer state, or 3) do so in the context of a larger Mexican rebellion that might comprise other northern states such as the Republic of the Rio Grande insurgents?

Honestly, I thinkthe French are going to need to either get influence in Mexico or Texas if they really want to protect Californie - preferably both if they can manage it. And if the French are going to be mucking around there, then the British are going to do the same. I could see both wanting to keep Texas independent which means supporting the Nationalist faction in Texas (which, of course, is going to be interesting, as the Texan Nationalists were pretty expansionistic and, even in OTL, tried to claim California!).
 
On another note, it'd be quite easy for the French to Gallicize many of California's place names.
  • San Francisco = Saint François
  • San Jose = Saint Joseph
  • Los Angeles = Les Anges
  • San Diego = Saint Jacques
  • Monterey = Mont du Roi
  • Santa Barbara = Sainte Barbe
  • Santa Monica = Sainte Monique
  • San Bernardino = Saint Bernardin
  • San Clemente = Saint Clément
So on and so forth.
 
Last edited:
Even in the best case, I just can't see France holding onto California all the way to present day. Well, maybe if there's no WWI (which seems... incredibly unlikely, given the general mentalities of the time), but even with that France isn't likely to have enough settlers to hold onto it, especially if/when the Yanks show up.

More to the point, even if they do settle enough colonists, California is likely to end up like Canada or Australia/New Zealand... California's OTL population is nearly 2/3 of Metropolitan France and growing, and it's half a world away.
 
I have a hard time seeing France holding onto California permanently, there will be too many Americans flooding into the region once gold is discovered, and California is about as long of a voyage from France as you can get. Still, I'm intrigued to see how La Californie Française turns out.

I don't see it as particularly out of the realm of possibility. There are certainly going to be Americans entering the territory - but they won't be the only ones, and as long as they're governed well, there'd be no reason for them to try to break off. Also, remember the vast distances we're talking about here - there's no Transcontinental Railroad existing yet, and the US's main interests are still focused primarily in the East and Midwest. This is an era where the Oregon Territory formed its own provisional government and came very close to trying to establish themselves as an independent Republic due to apparent disinterest in the US government over the territory.

You ARE right though that France is going to have to do something to encourage their own settlers to the region and find a way to make the logistics of holding the land make sense. Because one Gold is discovered, it is REALLY in their best interests to try to hold it.
 
On another note, it'd be quite easy for the French to Gallicize many of California's place names.
  • San Francisco = Saint François
  • San Jose = Saint Joseph
  • Los Angeles = Les Anges
  • San Diego = Saint Jacques
  • Monterey = Mont du Roi
  • Santa Barbara = Sainte Barbe
  • Santa Monica = Saint Monique
  • San Bernardino = Saint Bernardin
  • San Clemente = Saint Clément
So on and so forth.
In a OTL 1844 French map of California I found they call Monterey 'Monte Rey'.

Thank you for this , it will be very useful.
 
More to the point, even if they do settle enough colonists, California is likely to end up like Canada or Australia/New Zealand... California's OTL population is nearly 2/3 of Metropolitan France and growing, and it's half a world away.

A major New World decolonization story happening in the late 19th century or even the 20th would be very interesting, as Californie will be different from both the 13 colonies/New Spain/Brazil models, and from Canada receiving sovereignty much later on.

This is an era where the Oregon Territory formed its own provisional government and came very close to trying to establish themselves as an independent Republic due to apparent disinterest in the US government over the territory.

Speaking of, wondering if Oregon/Columbia/Cascadia will be rather different. It will have more French people from cross-border frontier settlement and general migration, I bet. Funny if Francophone Canada ends up stretching from sea to shining sea.
 
Speaking of, wondering if Oregon/Columbia/Cascadia will be rather different. It will have more French people from cross-border frontier settlement and general migration, I bet. Funny if Francophone Canada ends up stretching from sea to shining sea.
I'm sure the French will recruit a lot of French Canadians to settle in California. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more French Canadian settlers in California than Metropolitan French.
 
Top