When You Wish Upon a Nightmare - WDAS Collapses in the 80s

Chapter 2: The Great Mouse Detective
Chapter 2: The Great Mouse Detective

TGMD.jpg

The idea of a "Sherlock Holmes" adaptation with mice was first discussed during production on "The Rescuers", another mouse movie. Layout artist Joe Hale suggested adapting the children's book series "Basil of Baker Street" by Eve Titus, which in turn was based of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Ron Miller had his doubts however, the preliminary script was too similar to what "the Rescuers" had been. Instead the main focus at the studio was a more amibitous and grand film: "The Black Cauldron". "The Black Cauldron" had been in production since the late 1970s, and since it was a way more amibitous project which most staff had more confidence in, "The Great Mouse Detective" was considered the B-Picture.

One could argue that production on "The Great Mouse Detective" was troubled. While John Musker and Ron Clements were slated to direct the film, they were removed from the project due to creative differences on both this film and “The Fox and the Hound”. Both men left the studio not long after to join Don Bluth and “The Secret of NIMH”. Meanwhile, directorial duties were transferred to Art Stevens. Stevens had previously directed “The Rescuers” alongside Wolfgang Reitherman and John Lounsbery, so on paper he seemed like a good fit. The problem however was the main plotline. Originally the character Olivia was supposed to become a potential love interest for Basil, Miller went against this and in his own words “A little girl is somebody the audience would feel sorry for”. And yet the new plot shared too many similarities with “The Rescuers”. Even the main title garnered criticism. The title "The Great Mouse Detective" was seen as too generic and spawned an inside joke within the studio, where films were joking re-named: "Seven Little Men Help a Girl" or "The Wonderful Flying Children". There was a lot to sort out and re-work before the final release.

For voice casting, Barrie Ingham was notably set to voice Basil himself. While Miller was satisfied with Ingham’s voice acting, Stevens instead opted for John Cleese, another English actor who co-founded the British comedy troupe Monty Python. One could argue that Cleese's more comedic side dragged Basil's character down. For the main villain Ratigan, Vincent Price was first considered before Robert Loggia was ultimately chosen. Once again, Stevens felt that Price's voice was too energetic and grand for Ratigan, much like how Barrie Ingham was dropped. Henry Mancini was brought in to score the film's music. While there weren't much songs, two most remembered songs were "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind" and "Goodbye So Soon", both sung by Ratigan and/or his henchmen.

The plot follows Doctor David Q. Dawson discovering a young girl named Olivia Flaversham as he returns home from service in Afganistan. Olivia's toy making father had been kidnapped by a peg-legged bat and Olivia believes that the great detective Basil of Baker Street is the only one who could help her. When the two find Basil, Basil dismisses the two before he realises that the bat was actually his sworn nemesis Ratigan's second in-command Fidget. Basil agrees to help out Olivia and they manage to track down clues to Ratigan's underground lair. Unbeknowst to Basil, this was all an elaborate ploy by Ratigan to humiliate Basil and trap him once and for all. Basil manages to escape but leaves Olivia behind. Needing to rescue Olivia, Basil deduces that Ratigan's plan was to overthrow the Queen of Mousedom and install himself as leader. Basil and Dawson manage to reach Buckingham Palace and rescue Olivia and her father, culminating in a final battle on Big Ben.

"The Great Mouse Detective" premiered on December 16th 1983, with the Mickey Mouse featurette "Mickey's Christmas Carol" shown before it. Like "The Fox and the Hound", the film performed in the middle of the road financially. Reception was mixed but leaned towards the positive spectrum. There weren't any sudden tone shifts and tone killing songs this time around, which alone earned a lot more praise compared to "The Fox and the Hound". However the film wasn't without its faults. John Cleese and Robert Loggia both weren't the right fits for Basil and Ratigan, and Basil despite being the main protagonist was far too unlikeable and didn't gain any character development. Generally the film is seen as an alright movie, and it looked like Disney was heading towards the bright path, but nothing could've prepared anybody for the disaster that was to come.

Release Date: December 16th 1983

Cast:
John Cleese (Basil)
Paul Winchell (Doctor Dawson)
Robert Loggia (Professor Ratigan)
TBD (Olivia Flaversham)
Alan Young (Mr Flaversham)
Candy Candido (Fidget)
Lucille Bliss (Mouse Queen)
 
So TGMD ITTL is released before the Black Cauldron, as it was suggested by Joe Hale before being turned down until 1982 IOTL. Wha makes the film weaker here is due to neither Ingham nor Price providing voice roles, the change of director since Musker and Clements left for Bluth, and the plot being more lackluster. I couldn't decide who should voice Olivia just yet so I'll get back to that, and spoilers for later in the timeline but I'm not quite sure what to do with Eisner and Katzenburg, or whether Dreamworks will form in the future.
 
So TGMD ITTL is released before the Black Cauldron, as it was suggested by Joe Hale before being turned down until 1982 IOTL. Wha makes the film weaker here is due to neither Ingham nor Price providing voice roles, the change of director since Musker and Clements left for Bluth, and the plot being more lackluster. I couldn't decide who should voice Olivia just yet so I'll get back to that, and spoilers for later in the timeline but I'm not quite sure what to do with Eisner and Katzenburg, or whether Dreamworks will form in the future.
You can borrow this concept if you want
Dreamworks animation
Founded 27 July 1977
founders Don Bluth Frank Oz and Richard Hunt
Headquarters El Paso Texas
best known works the secret of nimh an American tail land before time rover Dangerfield and Anastasia to name a few
note after being fired from Disney in 1976 Don Bluth goes back home and founds this studio from his house later recruiting Frank Oz and Richard Hunt to co run it with him
 
You can borrow this concept if you want
Dreamworks animation
Founded 27 July 1977
founders Don Bluth Frank Oz and Richard Hunt
Headquarters El Paso Texas
best known works the secret of nimh an American tail land before time rover Dangerfield and Anastasia to name a few
note after being fired from Disney in 1976 Don Bluth goes back home and founds this studio from his house later recruiting Frank Oz and Richard Hunt to co run it with him
I still want Shrek to exist, it's just that I don't quite know how since the Renaissance musicals are likely to be butterflied away. And Bluth's studio will still be named after him.
 
I still want Shrek to exist, it's just that I don't quite know how since the Renaissance musicals are likely to be butterflied away. And Bluth's studio will still be named after him.
Incidentally, I'm facing a similar dilemma with my own timeline regarding the 90s + early 2000s era of Disney and DreamWorks (though it'll be a long while before it gets to that point).
 
Good update, but TGMD was renamed from Basil of Baker Street in OTL due to the underperformance of 1985’s Young Sherlock Holmes, which would’ve been released two years after TGMD ITTL.

As for Eisner and Katzenberg, they could either stay at Paramount or move to ABC like in the Hensonverse. Don’t know what do with Dreamworks though.
 
Good update, but TGMD was renamed from Basil of Baker Street in OTL due to the underperformance of 1985’s Young Sherlock Holmes, which would’ve been released two years after TGMD ITTL.

As for Eisner and Katzenberg, they could either stay at Paramount or move to ABC like in the Hensonverse. Don’t know what do with Dreamworks though.
The title TGMD could garner some in-studio controversy so I'll keep it, but I'll think of a different reason why they had to change it. And if Eisner/Katzenberg would go to ABC, they would go for Disney first and leave after 1985. As for Dreamworks, it's gonna be a while until we get to when it was founded IOTL so I'll have plenty of time to figure that out.
 
The title TGMD could garner some in-studio controversy so I'll keep it, but I'll think of a different reason why they had to change it.
Perhaps the reason for the change ITTL can be due to Basil sounding “too English”?
And if Eisner/Katzenberg would go to ABC, they would go for Disney first and leave after 1985.
Another idea I have is that Katzenberg leaves Disney after The Black Cauldron flops and goes to another studio, though I don’t know which one it could be.

This idea would mean that Eisner would have to find someone to become the new chairman of Disney’s film division after Katzenberg’s departure.
 
Perhaps the reason for the change ITTL can be due to Basil sounding “too English”?
Either that or Miller/Stevens feeling that “Basil of Baker Street”being too literal.

Another idea I have is that Katzenberg leaves Disney after The Black Cauldron flops and goes to another studio, though I don’t know which one it could be.

This idea would mean that Eisner would have to find someone to become the new chairman of Disney’s film division after Katzenberg’s departure.
I guess Dreamworks will be founded earlier if that’s the case
 
Most Disney-oriented timelines try to make the company even bigger and more influential than in real life (which is saying a lot) so its good to see a timeline that aims for the opposite goal for once.
 
Most Disney-oriented timelines try to make the company even bigger and more influential than in real life (which is saying a lot) so its good to see a timeline that aims for the opposite goal for once.
Agreed. Given how massive the company already is IRL, it's satisfying to see them knocked down a peg (or several) in timelines like this one.
 
Interesting idea for a timeline. Wonder how this will effect the parks since there would likely be no Eisner and thus the enforced synergy would also be gone. Things within the parks would look very different without that idea. Assuming they manage to hold out during the period of course.
 
Wonder how this will effect the parks since there would likely be no Eisner and thus the enforced synergy would also be gone. Things within the parks would look very different without that idea. Assuming they manage to hold out during the period of course.
So far I've planned to just have the animation studio collapse (i.e no Renaissance and TV Shows), there will be butterflies to the theme parks but as a whole they won't collapse. As for Eisner I haven't decided whether he'll even go to Disney yet, we'll see when we get to the next chapter.
 
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